- Did the two high school kids do anything to provoke David? David is certain they were mocking him! Sean was shocked and surprised and hadn’t seen anything! The high school kids were equally perplexed and confused! So did anything really happen? Why do you think so, support your position with evidence from the book?
debate with two other students about whether or not those high school kids did anything to provoke David!
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ReplyDeleteI think that they did not make fun of David because older kids usually pick on people. In this situation David yelled at them and called them stupid ugly liars. When older people start something and when they are getting yelled at they would usually yell back but these high schoolers was confused. Since Sean didn't see anything and since he is David's friend he wouldn't lie about what he saw to David so that is one witness who I could trust that saw the incident.
ReplyDeletesince a person that is younger than them yelled at them with such fury, that might be the reason that they were confused. Or since they objected to the fact that they were accused of making fun of David they probably did not do the thing that David was upset about. Also when he got angry, David and Sean were talking about nerve regeneration cells and David said he will walk again. I think that he announced this in his previous school and people made fun of him and they remind David of the people that used to bully them. David always gets furious when he thinks about nerve regeneration.
From day 1 David was always the angry type and i think that when he ran into Sean for the first time he must have been thinking of nerve regeneration and since Sean was blocking him from getting were he wanted he got angry. Since Scott told David to cool it because David was in a wheelchair, that might have made David more angry because they think he is weak just because he is in a wheelchair. rom this i think that David's anger creates illusions that lets him release his anger and since there were high schoolers they would be the perfect thing to make David furious. His mind might think up one thing and his eyes work with his mid and create an illusion.
Also since David is in a wheelchair, he probably gets bullied allot and from that fact he might just be sensitive. since they were high schoolers they he might have felt more anger than if it was a grade 7.
In conclusion i think that the high schoolers were innocent and David was guilty.
from not rom
DeleteYour answer doesn't make much sense to your final statement. What I mean by that is your answer is not proving any point of view. It just states that David gets into many fights.
Deletemany fights and anger issues means he is responcible
DeleteHow is he responsible just because he has been in many fights and he has anger issues?
DeleteI don't think that David got mad because of the nerve regeneration. If you look back in the chapter they started talking about it in their class. David did not seem very angry in that scene
Deleteya but would you be angry in front of a class when you got teachers to believe that your kind and you wouldn't hurt a fly. Also do u think that he would spoil his reputation as a kind student a end up like Scott.
DeleteAnger because of a flashback ... In depth and clever thought
ReplyDeleteFrom what I deducted, David started the fight between him and the high school kids. The high school kids were just walking past david and Sean, and david apparently “saw” the kids making fun of him. the kids might have been talking about some other thing and david interpreted it as them making fun of him.
ReplyDeleteDavid also likes to get into fights alot. in the very first chapter, Sean was sitting on the ramp and david started yelling at him to get off the ramp, when in actuality Sean wasn’t doing much wrong. he probably didn’t even know that there was a disabled kid in the school. David couldn’t even remember how much fights he’d been in. Even in this fight David wanted to fight with them. when the high school kids started questioning him and saying they didn’t do anything, david could’ve backed off right then and there. but he refused to change his opinion and still claimed they were making fun of him. Even after the fight, David wanted them to come back for another round.
Sean claimed he hadn’t seen the kids make fun of David. The highschool kids shared the same opinion. if the high school kids were actually making fun of David, why were they so hesitant to admit it. i’ve never seen highschool kids back off from a couple of grade 8s after making fun of them. if they actually did make fun of david, they wouldn't have been afraid to admit it, especially since there was no one David could run to and rat them out. According to sean, the highschool kids were just as perplexed as he was. if they had made fun of David, their surprise probably wouldn't have seem so genuine, either that or they were really good actors.
Another scenario could be that, David was testing Sean’s friendship. He wanted to see if Sean would support him no matter what. David knew they weren’t going to hurt a kid in a wheelchair. Sean was going to suffer the real damage. David wanted to see if sean would take his word as the truth no matter what. that’s why he looked so hurt when he didn’t believe him. would be a perfect set up to see if Sean really was the good and loyal friend we all thought him out to be.
In conclusion, i think that David started the fight because, he has a history of getting into fights, no one except him saw anything and he might have been testing sean’s loyalty and friendship.
Testing the friendship...clever
DeleteBut the High school students seemed uneasy when David claimed that they were making fun of him. Didn't that seem suspicious to you?
Deletethey were uneasy because they were being accused of making fun of a disabled kid, while a crowd was gathering. i think you and i would have felt the same way.
DeleteWhy would David want to test friendship by getting into a fight with someone who he doesn't know?
DeleteDavid wanted to see if Sean would stick with him the entire way and follow him through anything. The best way to do that is to catch Sean off guard and to see if he would support him through the fight and believe his word that they were making fun of him
DeleteDavid does have a temper but the high schoolers were mocking him. He wouldn't pick a fight for no reason. Additionally, David was being discriminated because he is in a wheelchair. Furthermore the high schoolers started to talk back and argue with a guy in a wheelchair. He wanted to pick a fight with David. Doesn't the guy know he is in a wheelchair.
DeleteWhen someone younger starts insulting you and calling you names, you don't just swallow your pride and walk away. That would make you seem like a coward. For example if a grade4 started calling you stupid and ugly, your not going to just walk away, you are going to retaliate and call him a few names of your own.
DeleteI agree with Jena, it doesn't make any sense to pick up some high school students you don't know to entrust friendship. Also, David didn't look like he was planning it. He would need time in order to do that. Most of David's time should be accumulated by home work, getting around, and doctors appointments, and I doubt that David's mom would let him do something that rash to plan, considering the fact David is already injured.
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DeleteIf I were to decide who started the fight it would be somewhat both with evidence leading to each of the 2, the high school kids or David.
ReplyDeleteIf David Started It: David probably would have started it since he saw those 2 mocking him. He is certain they were doing some hand gesture of a finger guy in a chair. But the only thing wrong about that is Sean did not see anything. Another thing is that David said to the high schoolers "You're both stupid, ugly liars!" in which that caused it to be a bigger problem as David called 2 high schoolers stupid and ugly. Also it said in the text "They looked as confused as I was by his onslaught and didn't answer (pg 128 6th line Sean perspective)." That means there was no evidence of the high school kids doing hand gestures about wheelchairs. The only piece of evidence that there is about them doing the hand gestures is David being certain that they did it. As David is CERTAIN he starts to yell at the high schoolers which starts the fight. It follows up with the high schoolers being confused as it shows in the text "What are you talking about, kid?" one of them said in astonishment (10th line page 128)." Hence the term astonishment. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/astonishment?s=t according to this website astonishment means "overpowering wonder or surprise; amazement." So it must mean that the high school person was really confused by what was going on with David. They probably thought he was crazy and wanted to fight. What David did was follow it up with a huge argument thus starting it. David also picks a fight around the end of page 128 as he again, argues saying "And if I don't, what are you going to do about it?" quote David. To me, this sounds like fight words since he probably wants them to do whatever to him or to fight back, thus starting the fight. Also if David hadn't even talked to them and just ignored them, the high schoolers wouldn't call them a cripple and a coward and just leave them alone.
If The High Schoolers Started It: David probably gets made fun of often due to his wheelchair. He most likely knows when someone is making fun of him or what the hand gestures look like. He is CERTAIN (meaning 100%) that the high schoolers were making fun of him using some hand gestures. David then yells at them because it was kind of rude to make fun of someone. They probably acted like they did not know what he was talking about since they probably wanted to make David feel dumb. But one of the high schoolers started talking back since he doesn't like David's attitude. At the bottom of page 128 and the top of 129, the high schoolers threaten them that they will shut them up if they don't stop arguing. Later on in page 129 one of the high schoolers said "You can't take a swing at him. He's just a kid in a wheelchair." later following by his other friend saying "You're right, I can't smack a kid in a chair. . . but there's nothing to stop me from popping that kid." He talks about Sean even though Sean did NOTHING! Nothing at all! The high schoolers were obviously picking a fight since they weren't going to hit David, they were going to hit Sean for just standing there and watching! Sean says he doesn't want to fight later on and the high schoolers made fun of them (again) by saying that Sean is a coward and David is a cripple. As Sean and David can't control their temper Sean punched him right in the mouth. The way the high schoolers started it was because they made fun of both David and Sean by calling them cowards and cripples, also being rude to them and doing the hand gestures that only David saw.
In my opinion both of them were guilty for starting the fight. But in my opinion if I were to pick a side, it would be David's side due to him being certain they made some hand gestures which caused the whole thing.
but there are lots of hand gestures to symbolize wheelchair and the same hand gestures could symbolize something else such as zombies or something they saw from a movie. David might have interpreted as making fun of him.
DeleteYou cite your response like a professional ! Great example of how to cite and reference information
DeleteThe scenery was after school on the way to either David's house or Sean's house. Do you really think high schoolers also walking home were coming from a movie? Do you really think that if you put a finger person on a chair that represents zombies?
DeleteI like how you took both sides of the incident and put them together in one response.
DeleteThanks!
Deleteif it was really the high school kids i'm pretty sure they would have still been making fun of David
DeleteThe reason they stopped making fun of him because David snapped and kept yelling at them.
DeleteI don't think that the two high school kids really did anything to provoke David. If Sean didn't see anything and the two high school kids were just as puzzled, then how can David prove that he wasn't the one that started the fight? He thinks that he's the only protagonist. David always sees the world negatively, like the whole world is against him if someone doesn't agree with him. Which is what happened right here. Sean didn't see anything, he was just trying to be prudent about the matter. That is why David thinks that now nobody is going to believe him. And when Sean had to take David's side, it wasn't just because he's a good friend, he actually didn't see anything. But he took his side because he was part of this fight and if he didn't support David, then that would mean trouble for him too.
ReplyDeleteDid something happen?! Of course something happened! There was a fight! Why would somebody just decide to fight another person just for their own amusement? If there was a fight somewhere, I'm pretty sure that someone or something must have caused it. David thought that the high school kids were making fun if him by pretending to push a wheelchair. But how does David know that, that was directed at him? He didn't mention that the high school kids were looking at him and making fun of him. That means that they could've been doing something else.
We know that David has temper that can go out of control in seconds, he needs to control that because in reality, this stuff can slap him in the face, over and over and over again.
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DeletePrudent you say!
DeleteThen why would David throw a big fit about it? There wouldnt be no reason for him to do that if the high school kids didnt do anything. Also Sean was busy talking to David and David was distracted looking at what they were doing
DeleteBut the two high school kids claim to have done nothing and Sean didn't see anything.
DeleteWe always assume that the main characters are always right but that's not always the case.
Maybe they did something that David see's often with people like him but they didn't realize it
DeleteAlso if the two high school kids actually did do something, then why didn't they come back to fight after the lady went?? They wouldn't be afraid of two grade 8s if they intentionally started the fight.
DeleteBut it's all about perspective.
David needs to accept the fact that he's in a wheelchair and that there are many advantages and disadvantages about being in one. Alothough this is true, I like how David is still himself and not someone who only looks at their weaknesses.
DeleteNice sentences of you supporting the argument and they make sense why you are saying that David started the fight. Also a great way of using the word prudence.
DeleteI really like your response due to all the expression and thought you put into it. It makes a lot of sense in the second paragraph in which you explain more about David not starting the fight.
DeleteI think the 2 High School Kids really did something to provoke David. The reason is because, judging the last time David fought, someone else started the fight (aka Sean). David seems like the person that will stay happy and normal and he won't get into fights, unless he gets angry. Like Sean, David has a very bad temper. You could also tell that the older and bigger of the 2 High School Kids really wanted to fight either Sean or David, for making him feel angry. Since he wanted to fight so badly, he purposely shoved Sean to start the fight. Which now provoked both of them. Also, David has a very different perspective than Sean and the 2 High School kids. David, is in a wheelchair. So, maybe the High School kids were NOT making fun of David, but David saw it that way. If the High School Kids were aware of their surroundings and that motion of whatever they were doing looked like a wheel chair, they probebly should have done it somewhere else, because their actions provoked David, and they tried to get into a fight with Sean so I'd still say it was the High School Kids fault. Also, as said in the text: "The two High School Kids were feeling more and more uneasy." Which proves that one of them was actually doing something. For them to feel uneasy like that means that there is a chance that they actually did something. To break the uneasyness, one of them just wanted to start a fight. Just to break out the fact that they didn't do anything, when in reality, they actually did something. They ended up looking more and more guilty in the book, which stirred up more and more suspicion. It made me think that they actually did do something, and knowing older kids, they like to pick on younger kids, simply because they are older. So that is why I belive that the older kids had started this fight.
ReplyDeletein davids last fight, sean did not start it. he was provoked by david when he started insulting him and mocking him. Sean didn't even throw the first punch in that fight. secondly if the high school kids were doing something that looked like mockery to david, they probably didn't even consider that it might be offensive to david. i dont think its fair to them that they couldn't do what they were doing just because a kid in a chair interpreted it as discrimination. and they looked uneasy because people started to come and watch, which made them feel uncomfortable.
DeleteBut what if the highschool kids got angry at David since he accused them of something they might've not done.. and then would've started the fight? And what if the teens were uneasy because David might've been accusing them of something they didn't do and had no idea of what he was talking about. Also, as you said above that "older kids like to pick on younger kids simply because they are older"-does this apply to all older kids?
DeleteIf it was the high schoolers fault and they intentionally did it, then why did they not return after they ran away. The woman also left, so who was stopping them from returning and fighting back??
Delete(In reply to Hassan): Sean technically did start the fight back then. Sean was at the ramp standing there when he was not soposed to, whether he knew there was a kid in a wheelchair there or not. Secondly, if I were a high school kid and I was making fun of a kid younger than me, I would obviously feel uneasy. But if I was doing the opposite, I would reply saying "No, I'm sorry. I think you missunderstood." I wouldn't feel uncomfortable and I don't think you would either.
Delete(In reply to Reesa): If the high school kids didn't pick on them (which I think not) they would have to play smart and stay calm and also explain what they were doing, instead of fighting for their rights. And like I said to Hassan, they probebly would have reacted differently if they did not make fun of David. They would have come to a more calm response. And finally, no that statement does not apply to ALL older kids, just most of them. And since there is a low chance that they were not making fun of David for that matter, it's safe to say that they were making fun of David.
Delete(In reply to Shaili): Think of it this way, high school students don't want to pick on big talk kids. Sure they get mad easier, but they put up more of a fight. Also, since others were watching the fight, the book didn't mention that all of those people left. At least a couple teachers and students could be there. That could have been stopping them from coming back for round 2.
DeleteI'm sure if David had asked Sean nicely, he would have just mumbled sorry and got off the ramp. But David did not ask nicely, which made Sean mad. And if you are wrongly being accused of something, then you are going to feel uncomfortable. And they tried to let David know that they didn't know what he was talking about. But that only made David angrier. Even if they had formally denied it, da I'd wouldn't have believed them.
DeleteI agree to Hassan that Sean didn't start the fight but everyone thought that he did cause David is on a wheelchair. Also when David called the 2 high schools students they were confused for what happened and why he is calling them
DeleteLook through David's character once again. David doesn't look like the kind of person that would simply be nice to others that have made a mistake that triggers him. Sean has that exact same trait. Also, if you were in the high school kids place, would you not lie to get out of a mess of trouble? I'm saying that they probably did do an action relating to pushing a wheelchair, and in that process David saw what they were doing. If you had done it, you would lie and feel uneasy about doing something wrong. However, if you were NOT doing anything wrong, you would understand that a kid under your age had misunderstood something, and try to explain EXACTLY what you were doing. The high school kids did not do that, which came to my conclusion.
DeleteWould Sean have got off the ramp if he asked nicely?
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Deletei think he would have. from what we have read so far, Sean does not seem like the person who would deny a disabled person access to the only wheelchair ramp in the school. If David did nothing to provoke Sean and asked politely, i think there was no reason for Sean to remain on the ramp.
DeleteKeep in mind that Sean is just like David. Asking politely is not going to cut it. Remember what happened with the High school kids and David, they tried getting the easy way out, but with the rate David was at it never worked. Sean had also acted in that scene, so it seems that the two are alike. I doubt that Sean will react the opposite way of Hassan.
DeleteBut it's after school, the students are not in the hands of the teachers anymore. Anything that is after school wouldn't be the teachers problems anymore.
DeleteIf David would have asked nicely, what reason would Sean have to remain on the ramp???? i honestly do not understand your argument. what incentive does Sean have to remain on the ramp if David asks him nicely. That i do not understand. if you can give me a valid argument, that makes more sense than "asking politely won't cut it" and "Sean is very much like Sean" that would be great
DeleteSean is very much like david sorry
DeleteI think that the high school kids started the fight. David gets mad alot easily. David caught the kids making fun of him for being in a wheelchair. I think that if the high school kids didn't do anything the fight wouldn't have even started. From the book I know that David gets serious alot. There is always something that creates a fight and I think in this case it was the high school kids making fun of David.
ReplyDeleteEveryone gets mad at diffrent things and David dosen't like it when people make fun of him. So even if the high school kids were also mad they should of just said in the first place, because then they will both cool of and not create a fight. One of the high school kids also told David to shutup when he could of just said sorry to end the fight.
"they should of just said in the first place." What did they say in the first place anyways? Also there is barely any evidence that the high school kids were actually taunting David so there is no reason to say sorry unless they actually did something.
DeleteIn the book when David said he woulden't shutup one of the high school kids said he was going to making him shutup, basically saying he was going to beat him up. This created a bigger scene because the high school kid was the first to say ge was going to fight. This made david want to fight hich created the fight. He could of just said sorry even if he didn't do anything to cool david off. David is a type of person that gets mad really fast and fight back so since the high school kids were older they could have ended the fight by saying sorry.
DeleteBut David was the one who shouted out at the high school kids in the first place which made the high schoolers threaten them.
Deletebut the reason david shouted at them was because he saw them making fun of him
DeleteBut no one else saw the high schoolers do anything and in the text it said that they looked confused. So David could have shouted for no reason.
Deletei disagree because there is no proof in the text that shows the high school kids irritating David and if they did why didn't they continue when David called them out or after the lady came to tell them to go they still could have come back after she left
DeleteNo proof in the text perhaps ... What do you personally know and can infer about how high school kids act that you could use to formulate your opinion that the highschool kids started it
DeleteI dont like when someone stares at me too long and it gets annoying but maybe that's the place where david was he thought that the 2 high schoolers were mocking him and trying to make fun of him but what actually happened was that david felt uncomfortable and wanted to express him self and make sure that they understood that its hard to be in a wheelchair. but at the same time i think that scott was in the same place and maybe david wanted to impress scott because scott doesnt even like him.there are many possibilities but the one tht i mostly beleive that is true is that david is jealous and wants to say that its not easy to be siting in a wheelchair all the time and he just wants to walk again.Even in the story he is all with sketchy conspiracy about how he will walk again and with just stand and wont be sitting anymore.but that makes me think that he is mad inside and from time to time he gets bothered of people looking and talking about him.
ReplyDeletewe dont know for sure that they were talking about him so he has no right being annoyed
DeleteBut they were staring at him, why would he get mad and irritated for no reason?
DeleteObviously people would stare at you in a wheelchair, I'm sure hundreds of people have stared at him but then did he yell at every single one?
DeleteI think that since the book didn't say anything about annoyed you could have described it and with that we would know what you are trying to tell us. Also you didn't add the part where it said Did anything really happen
DeleteWhere does Scott come in? The kids were high school kids...
DeleteMaybe looking at David is all the cause he needs to blame others and lash out...is this ok considering his situation?
DeleteI think that David is the one who started the fight, because I think he has been so used to people treating him differently because of his disability, so he is probably a little more sensitive to actions or emotions that other people convey toward him; so he might have thought that the teenagers’ actions might have meant something else. If you look at the teenagers’ stunned reactions toward what David accused them of, you can probably figure out that they didn’t intend to do anything. If it was actually mocking, the teenagers’ would have probably raised up a fight then and there if David were to confront them. But no- when David and Sean confronted them, they had a defensive reaction as opposed to a negative one. The teenagers created conflict at the confrontation because David provoked them by accusing them of making fun of him when they actually weren’t. And, I’m pretty sure that the teenagers wouldn’t just pick a fight just like that- and we don’t even know for sure if the teenagers were just joking around among themselves about a topic completely non-relevant to David’s wheelchair, or if they were actually making fun of him.
ReplyDeleteDavid is in a wheelchair, so he receives reactions very different as to normal people (take the Ms. Burke example, or when Mr. McCulley didn’t take David’s actions into account during the big incident.) David knows that he will get treated differently, because of the fact that he is in a wheelchair; and although he can use that as an advantage, but then sometimes he takes people’s reactions toward him as something different and more sensitive altogether, and takes that as mocking him (Even Sean isn’t sure what his reactions are going to be to things people say to him.) Take Sean’s example at the office when he tried to move his wheelchair- Sean ended up with David yelling at him “This isn’t a stroller. Got it?”
So, my guess would be that, from David’s point of view, everything related to his wheelchair is a sensitive topic. So, I’m guessing that David started the fight because he thought that the teenagers were making fun of his wheelchair- and maybe they did (or didn’t), but he took their actions too seriously and jumped to conclusions of how they “made fun” of him, even if he was “certain’ that the teens were making fun of him. It’s his perception that people and society will treat him differently because he is in a wheelchair.
Reesa wasn't the high schoolers the one who made them get physical. Yeah David called them idiot but they were discriminating him. David does have a temper but that wouldn't make him have a fight when his mom told him not to get in trouble or hurt. Additionally , David was scared because his mom if going to feel sad. The high schoolers were calling him names. If they didn't call them names this wouldn't have happened.
DeleteThe high school kids were probably just playing shocked. It's normal for people to play shocked or innocent when that are actually guilty
DeletePhilip, don't you think that Sean would have not noticed if the high school kids surprise was not genuine?
Delete(In response to Keirthanan) Yes, although it may seem that the high school kids started the fight by being physical, but in the grand scheme of things, you can actually see that David was the one who started it-by accusing the teenagers that they were teasing him, which provoked the teenagers into becoming angry because he had accused them for something they didn't do. So, if DAVID wouldn't have accused them the whole situation wouldn't have happened.
DeleteTeenagers don't just pick fights? Or make fun of people without thought of consequences? Hmmmm ...
DeleteI like your response and the way you explained thoroughly and i agree that David started the fight not the 2 high school students.
DeleteReesa, you said that discriminating David in a wheel chair isn't that big of a deal when the high schoolers might have made fun of him but actually it is. Disability discrimination is illegal in many countries including here in Ontario. And wouldn't you feel hurt if some of your body parts weren't able to work and were made of because of your physical appearance?
DeleteBut Connie, we don't know for sure if the teenagers were actually making fun of David. And, I never mentioned how big of a deal it was to make fun of someone in a wheelchair. It IS a big deal, but I think that David was too sensitive because of his disablilty. TBC
DeleteI think it was the highschool kids because, of course David will get easily mad but I think its common for an older kid (high school students) to make fun of younger students mostly some of them with a disability. Sean was talking to David while he was distracted seeing the older kids make some actions and making fun of him also staring at him which made David loose his temper. After he called them out, the older kids starting walking TOWARDS them!
ReplyDeleteThey seemed confused when David said they were making fun of him but they must of did something David sees common what others do to either make fun of or insult people like him. Well as David was saying, they were staring at him and he disliked that. We all know David gets mad very easily but this time David isn't the one that started it. Sean was focused on talking to David which is the reason why he didn't see anything happen. But David must of felt uncomfortable and saw the things they were doing and they were starring at him so that could mean they were making fun of him, they could of drop the stair. It could of been 1 high school student at least, because the others didn't want anything to do with the little argument.
It could of been a misunderstanding but as I mentioned before high school students and older grades tend to pick or make fun of people with disabilities. They should know the lives of people with disabilities are totally different then the lives of people without disabilities.
In conclusion, there would be no reason for David to go on off like that to them if they hadn't done something to provoke him! David was so ANGRY about what happened So that's why I think the high school kids started it. So why would he be angry for nothing and of course you would stick up for yourself if you actually seen people making fun of you and so on! Of course you would get mad and you just want to speak out your mind! Anyone would do that and of course I would. It irritated him so much. So those are my reasons.
I agree that high school kids tend to pick on kids, but even they are hesitant to pick on a disabled kid. All David needs is an opening and he got that. I don't think the kids did anything to provoke David, they might have been just walking past talking about something else and David interpreted it as an insult. And if they really had why were they afraid to admit it? They obviously weren't scared of David. And they couldn't have faked genuine surprise unless they were really good actors.
Deleteactually since Sean was right there and he didn't here or see anything and somehow David herd or saw him. -_-
DeleteSean was talking to David and not paying attention to what was happening, but as he was talking to David, David was distracted seeing what those high school kids were doing
DeleteIt is plausible that the high school kids so use to snickering and making little jokes about everyone they encounter made a joke that David saw but they were so accustomed to doing didn't realize they did
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ReplyDeleteDid the two high school kids do anything to provoke David?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the high school did nothing to provoke David because at the beginning of this "fight" David was accusing the high school kids for moving their hands like he was in a wheel chair. But in my opinion these teens were just walking down minding nobody's business until David provoked them by calling them idiots.
So if anything David was the one that provoked the high school kids.
So did anything really happen?
What happened was there were 2 high school kids walking down minding there own business and David seemingly saw them making hand gestures like he is in a wheelchair , so David called them idiots and a fight went down. This all started because David "saw" them doing crazy hand movements but in my opinion they were just walking down minding nobody's business.
But if the high school students didn't do anything there would be no reason for him to throw a big fit about it
DeleteDavid is always throwing big fits for no reason. He has a hot head and he does nothing to restrain it. i agree with abishank that the high school kids did nothing to provoke david.
Deletewell yea we all know David has a temper but this provoked him so much and he was soo ANGRY, and he caught them staring..... why would they be starring in the first place?
DeleteDavid would not pick a fight for no reason. They must have mocked him. David cant walk but he is not blind. David does have that temper, but that temper had allowed him to fight for the right thing. He was being discriminated.
DeleteMore analysis ... The second per is just a retell of the events
DeleteI believe that the high school kids did nothing to provoke David, They were just walking down and David try to claim that they were making hand gestures that got David so angry. In my opinion they weren't starring, they were just walking down looking what is In front of them which was David and Sean. When you walk down the sidewalk, do you not look at what is in front of you or see where you are going? That is pretty much what the high school kids were doing, seeing what is in front of them
DeleteChapter 11
ReplyDeleteI think the high school kids were just fooling around. Minding there own business.Also I think they didn't start the fight because they were very shocked when David started screaming at them. Sean did not see anything and I think if they were doing something that bothered David Sean would of approached them and tell them to stop.
Obviously David started the fight also because he most likely feels that everyone thinks he can't do anything. He might feel vulnerable and furious. That whats makes him so unwise of his actions. He wants people to see he is the same. And that there is no problem being in a wheelchair.
David had brought this predicament to him self. David should of acted prudent towards the obstacle of the 2 high schoolers. It was wrong for David to even try to fight. Now that he is upset with with Sean that he didn't see anything he should of thought throw his actions. Also Sean should of let them go because if his parents knew he was in a fight they would be very upset.
Over all I think it was David's Was the one who caused the problem. His mother has the right to be mad at him. He should know the consequences. Also never do something like that again. Because maybe in the future they can get in to trouble with the police.
The fact they were shocked is enough evidence that they are innocent?
DeleteI think David started the fight because he thought he saw something at the corner of his eye and it was high school kids they we're talking and moving their hands in a shape that resembled the movement of a well chair when it could have been anything instead of being prudent like Sean David yelled and bring up a fight.Yes it is known that high-school kids bully or make fun of younger kids than them. But David is in a wheelchair so they think that he is weak, it's just a stereotype people put on disabled children they don't realize that they are human too. I also think David put stereotype on the high-school kids, just because they are older than you and they are male doesn't mean they will make fun of you.
ReplyDeleteIf David had just ignored them then all of this wouldn't have happened I think David provoked the big guy and made the situation more complicated than it had to be but he still continued because that's just his personality and you can't change it. I think the high school guys were just looking straight ahead and were surprised to see him in a wheelchair so they just stared, it's just like the time when my mom burnt her face, when we were getting up to leave the hospital she got the looks like you wouldn't believe.
Good point but then he's obviously experienced a lot of discrimination and when have you ever seen someone move their hands in a wheelchair form? And he wouldn't scream at people because it draws attention. I think he already has enough attention.
DeleteTrue. But like i said they were just as surprised as Sean and they would have kept making fun of hi
DeleteWhen some people talk, they also talk with their body as well. They move their hands around to try to make you better understand what is going on. So maybe that is what was happening with the high school kids. When you said "it is known that high school kids bully or make fun of kids" that is a stereotype that really isn't factual. Not all high school kids bully and make fun of kids , and the reason why these high school kids were arguing with Sean and David is because David provoked them.
DeleteWhy does David not ignore things...
Deleteit's very common for an older kid to pick on a younger kid. they are to scared to pick on kids that are stronger, bigger and older.
DeleteThe two high school kids didn't do anything to provoke David because they were just minding their own business. They were laughing on something one of the high school kid had said, but David thought that they were making fun of him and mocking him because he is on a wheelchair. Also, we all know that David starts fight, because when Sean and David were in a fight everyone thought that Sean had started but it was David who actually started the fight. David started yelling and saying things to the high school kids. Sean knew that when he loses his temper he would have a fight. Sean was prudent about the situation that was going on between David and the two high school kids.
ReplyDeleteDID SOMETHING HAPPENED?
Yes, something happened which was the fight. David started yelling at the high school kids and they got mad cause they didn't know what David was talking about. David started the fight by yelling at them when they didn't do anything. To prove that- ¨what are you two baboons looking at?¨ David yelled. this can tell that David started and made the fight happen. So, yes something really happened, there was a fight.
In my opinion, I think that David shouldn’t lose his temper before he knows why he is doing that because he didnt know what the two high school kids were talking or mocking about.
I like the way how detailed your response is-with the actual phrase from the book. Good use of vocabulary as well. And, I agree with the fact that david was the one who started the fight by yelling at them. But, Sean threw the first punch. Didn't his temper also flare?
DeleteThank you, yes he did start just thought that since that David loses his temper he might start
DeleteI think that David started the fight, because David can easily get mad or butthurt and he can’t control himself. Just like in the previous chapters David gets mad at Sean even though Sean didn’t do anything wrong. Also David always thinks of himself as the right person or the innocent person just because he is in a wheelchair, like how David got into a fight with Sean right in the end of the first chapter or at the beginning of the second chapter. Then at the roller rink David was about to get into a fight with Scott.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason why I think that David started the fight is because David might have been lying about the high school kids, in the view of Sean he didn’t see the high school kids mocking David. Since Sean was facing David just like how Sean said in the text “He suddenly stopped his chair and spun around to face me.” This could be why Sean didn’t see what the high school kids were doing. Which could make David a lier since he has no prove rather than his own eyes.
Another reason why David started the fight is that David must have thought they were talking about him because when the high school kids were walking they must have been using hand gestures to each other about what they were talking about, and David must have thought they were talking about him due to the hand gestures that the high school kids were using. Just like how David said in the text “ I saw the way you were moving your hands like you were in a wheelchair.” Which can prove my point about the hand gestures.
These are my Points about why I think that David was the one who started the fight between him and the high school kids which got Sean involved.
But why would David lie to Sean? You didn't mention it.
DeleteI didn't say David lied to Sean, I said that David might have been mistaken that the High School kids where making fun of him.
DeleteIf David is the only one that saw what the high school kids did that does not make him a liar.
DeleteBut then again David wouldn't have threw a big fit if the high school kids didn't do anything
DeleteI was saying that since Davids temper shoots up easily he might of thought that the high school kids where using gestures to mock him and he must of though they were making fun of him. On the other hand he must of never thought that they might of been talking about something else.
DeleteI believe that the high school students started the argument because David was so sure that they had mocked him. Additionally David wouldn't pick a fight for no reason. David does have a temper but that temper won't raise up if something didn't happen to offence him. I believe that the high school students would have started the fight because they were mocking him in his wheel chair. David is can see discrimination before it happens because he is always feels he is being discriminated because he is in a wheelchair. Maybe that's why Sean did not see them mocking him because he is not used to seeing discrimination. Additionally , I believe that the high school students started it because those high school students did not seem friendly.
ReplyDeleteDavid is always angry. He has a temper but he won't pick a fight for a idiotic reason. David must have seen them mocking him. David's temper does intervean with the situation but so does the high school students. David is not careless, do you think he will pick a fight for fun. Do you think that people enjoy getting beat up. In the text it had mentioned that David's mom does not want him to get hurt. So, why would he get himself beat up for no reason and get in trouble by his mom. David is a prudent person, why would he want to get hurt. Is getting in trouble by your mom fun? NO! There would have been a purpose. David had probably felt ashamed that he got discriminated, so he talked back. He didn't want to feel upset. He "stood" up for himself. That is the whole point of getting bullied, you need to fight back. I had watched a video where a bully always beats up this kid because he was fat, but one day he had beat him up instead. The news and the world allowed him.
David can be easily be targeted for discrimination so he will be prudent about people who can discriminate him. He will quickly know who is teasing him and he will know before anyone else because he is in a wheelchair. Maybe that is why Sean did not seen them do that. further more because David was a disable person he could see how others react around him because he is in a wheel chair. For example in the text it had mentioned that many people talk slow and soft to him because he is in a wheelchair. This is a discrimination because they think he can't hear either. Additionally many people give him more attention then the others because he is disabled. If you were disabled you would be more prudence.
In the text it mentions that the taller high school student also had a temper he was going to swing his fist at him. The taller high school student had no respect for a kid in a wheelchair so he could have mocked him. Further more he had called him a cripple. Wouldn't that tempt them too fight. These high school students did not seem friendly. They were described as "the big guy.'' These high schoolers were not the best people to meet.
In conclusion the fight was the high schoolers fault. If they didn't mock him this problem would never had happened. Furthermore David is strong and brave so he would stand up for the right thing.
the high school kid's temper blew up because David was insulting him! wouldn't you be mad, if someone blew up on you when you clearly didn't deserve it. just because someone doesn't seem friendly doesn't mean they're going to go and start fights.
DeleteDavid does pick fights for no reason. the first one is a prime example of that. David started talking smack to Sean just because he was on the wheelchair ramp, when he could have asked politely. David might be able to tell when people are making fun of him, but don't you think that David could make a mistake. After all he is human. And how can David see discrimination before it happens?
David has shown time and time again he is careless. Crossing the street was one of them. Sean, who cars can clearly see was hesitant to jaywalk, while David, who was too short for some cars to see, was rolling like he owned the street. When you insult someone, you pick at their weaknesses, and "the big guy" was doing just that in retaliation to David's remarks about him.
yeah Hassan but the high school kids shouldn't pick a fight with a person in a wheel chair. The big guy should have let him go. They both do have a temper but , David wouldn't pick a fight with someone for no reason.
DeleteDavid just needs a small opening to start fighting, and he got that opportunity. he doesn't care what the consequences are, because he'll get exempted, because he's in a wheelchair. but while doing all that he still thinks people would not treat him differently in the chair, while he's exploiting all the advantages. if you like the advantages, you have to deal with the disadvantages too
Deletebut why was david soo worried when his mom was going to find out
Deletei think that david saw the high school kids doing something and thought they were making fun of him, but i dont think that the high school kids were doing anything.i dont really think anything happened but since david is in the wheelchair people seem to put labels on him so david dosent want this. david just wants to be treated equally because he is sick of people puting labels over his head. in the start of the book david was like a volcano about to explode everytime sean took him on, so i think that david did start the fight. so i think that the teenagers arent fully innocent but they still dident do much to david since he could of just ignored them
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Deletei like your concept, i understand how david can get angry but it is the teenagers than were doing somthing to david that made him angry. since there were 3 teenagers they wouldent be afraid of two 8th graders.
DeleteDon't you think it's actually common for older kids and high school students to provoke kids that are younger than them?
Deletethat is right but also david was the one who got super angry because he THOUGHT that they were making fun of him. but really the teenagers werent doing anything. but since sean had the first hit you. have a good point
DeleteMariam, older kids do tend to pick on little kids but even they are hesitant to pick on disabled kids. do you think the biggest bully in grade 8 (jena) would pick on a grade 4 in a wheelchair?
DeleteNo, that's a good point but it would be common to happen.
DeleteActually, teenagers make fun of you whenever they want, even if they don't have a reason. I know this because my brother slams insults in my face when I haven't even walked through the door yet.
Deletei know teens do pick on little kids but im saying that even they think before they start to make fun of a disabled kid
DeleteYea but it's common to happen, even if you don't see it, people talk behind your back, they call you names either way disabled or not
DeleteEvidence to support your position
Deletehassan is teenagers see someone with problems and they are bigger than that person they would have a natural call to make fun of that kid
DeleteI agree with Illiaz the high school kids were just walking to them and just making action, they weren't pointing at David or anything, but David THOUGHT the high school kids were talking about him, if David at least asked them if they were talking about him the fighting won't have started.
Deletethe high school kids were starring at david...
Deletei think that the high school kids are the ones that started the fight. there are lots places in the book where it said that David has a temper. still, no one gets angry for no reason.
ReplyDeleteon page 127 in the book, paragraph 6 it says that David spun around and faced Sean. if they were facing each other that has to mean that David can see what is happening behind Sean. Sean can’t see what happens behind him unless he turn around. it also said that David suddenly looked angry. the book is also in first person which means that everything is in Sean’s perspective. So, it means that Sean did not see the high school kids until David pointed at them. that once again proves my point. Sean did not see the high school kids until he turned around to see what David was angry at.
on page 131 in the second last paragraph it said that David’s mom said that David had to stop getting hurt. on the next page it also said that she said that he came into to many fights. why would someone risk to get in trouble with their mom because they want to get into a fight. it does not make any sense, no one does that. they did also call them stuff that hurt their feelings, like a cripple and a coward. there was no reason to bump into Sean like that when they were leaving. i also agree with Sean and David when they said that the high school guy asked for it.
David should also get some blame because he did call them stupid, ugly liars. he also has a temper and i can’t blame him for that.
But what if David saw a misunderstanding and instead picks a fight for no reason? What if it was just something different and nowhere related to wheelchairs since it says that they were confused?
DeleteBut David thought that they were mocking him and making a fun of him, also the when their was a fight between Sean and David, David was the first to punch not Sean
Deleteit does not seem very normal if someone started to move their hands like they where in a wheelchair during a conversation about something that's not related to it. people also ACT confused sometimes just to get out of trouble or prevent themselves from getting caught.
DeleteGreat evidence using David's mom words to support your position
Deletesean was the one who started the fight**********
DeleteI think that the high school kids did provoke David to be enraged with them because everything happens for a reason and I don't think he would just scream at people out of the blue if they didn't do anything wrong . In the text David was furious and hurt when Sean told him to tell the truth to his mom , and maybe he had enough of people discriminating him just because he was in a wheelchair. David is usually angry and strong, he has never seem agonized in the book before and maybe he was just done with people not seeing what he sees and never believing him. Maybe people think he's always making things up to direct his anger aimed at others when he starts the fights so he can blame it on others that it wasn't his fault in the accident.
ReplyDeleteI think he has the right to feel this way because we were all made equally but then all of a sudden his legs were unworkable. This must be a big impact in his life and I can't say he is making stuff up because I don't know how it feels to be made fun of since I have legs that work and who knows how he feels? Some people are so tired of bullying that they end up suiciding but David still wants to live his life so I think he's just tenacious to fight for what's right for him. I would stand up for myself if people were making fun of the way I live if I didn't have working legs, that's not my fault that accidents happen.
If you notice in the first fight in the story with Sean, it was Sean's fault that he was in the wheelchair ramp he wasn't supposed to be there anyway, he was probably having a rough day and didn't want things to get into his way because this was his new school and he probably just wanted to get over with it so that's why he started the fight and he was probably annoyed when he saw the shock and disbelief on Sean's face and he gave him more than one chances to get out of the way but Sean was too persistent And thought he had the right to stay where he was so that's what triggered the fight. There was a reason why he started that fight and the high schoolers were probably mimicking his actions behind his back and because he's in a wheelchair his anger was probably boiling because he is offended when people think that he because has one inabilities they think he has more. Albert Einstein says that "Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid." Like David , everyone has inabilities and he obviously wants to live happily by protecting himself and his happiness. We have to use prudence towards disabled people to make them feel comfortable.
Researchers have said that violence occurs 1.7 times more towards disabled kids than non disabled kids. David maybe believes that we should all be treated equally no matter who you are because we are all human beings. People don't want to look around with others snickering at them and laughing at them everyday because they have differences, we are all different in a way. And remember not to judge a book by its cover. David is a very intelligent person in my opinion. He wouldn't want to start fights without a reason because his mother was already putting pressure on him to have a fresh start here at his new school and home and he was doing fine until he saw the situation. Feelings can change within a second, and there is always a reason. That's why I think that David didn't start the fight.
But Sean didn't see anything and weren't they walking behind David
DeleteNo they were walking towards them
DeleteAlso if the high school kids started the fight then they would have still made fun of David when he called them out
DeleteBut then they don't expect him to be like that, because he's disabled they probably think another part of him is disabled too. Like when teachers talk slowly to him, they probably think he can't do anything to protect themselves
DeleteThis is very detailed and precise response and it's convincing me to put some guilt on the high school boys. But, since David wants everybody to not think of him as a different creature just because his legs don't work, why does he always take advantage of the fact that he's in a wheelchair. For example, when the two high school boys threatened to hit Sean instead of David (since he's in a wheelchair). And then he doesn't fire back because he is being saved from getting a black eye. Doesn't that mean that he does think of himself differently?
DeleteI agree, David would never throw a big fit about that for like no REASON AT ALL! David was so angry about it
Deleteglad to know Sean stuck up for David- it's what good friends do
DeleteWhat great evidence you found!
DeleteShaili you have a very good point. David think's that he is different from others because other people who aren't like him don't think that he can be capable of doing much. David maybe wants to show that he is just like everyone else that he has the ability to do what he desires but people re like "He can't do anything. He's in a wheel chair." but he want's to prove them wrong probably.
DeleteI think David is the one who started the fight not the 2 high school kids because David did not hear anyone making fun of him he just thinks the 2 high school kids were based on there actions they were doing in page 128. If David had never called the 2 high school kids baboons maybe there wouldn't be a fight at all between them.Since David had been in a wheel chair for quite a long time he may feel a bit sensitive based on people's actions. He might think they are making fun of him but really they could have been talking about something else that includes a wheel chair.by David being a bit to sensitive about people's actions that can cause problems to wards him. David should have got his information first to see if they were really making fun of him before he started calling them names. Calling them names just made one of them want to fight David more.if the other high school kid did not hold the other high school kid back then the one that was about to fight him would have fought him and made him stay in the wheel chair longer. By calling the high school kids baboons,stupid,ugly liars,asking them if there too stupid to talk. By David calling them all these things can make the high school kids get mad especially the one that was about to fight him. You can tell by his actions the one that was about to fight him was very mad.even when the 2 high schools kids where leaving the one that was about to fight him bumped into David on purpose .
ReplyDeletethe high school kids also called David a cripple and they called Sean a coward.
DeleteYou Basically talked about the fight and not about who STARTED the fight. Can you at least give one more point that why you think David started the fight?
Deleteok say if you were in David's position, and you saw high school kids starring at you and making hand gestures that your certain they're talking about you, wouldn't you get mad? wouldn't you start talking and say "Stop starring at me!" because people find starring quite uncomfortable
Deletehe was just trying to stand up for himself
Deleteya but the high school kids could have been talking about something else that could have been behind David and Sean
DeleteAnd kainaat in the beginning i said that David was the one who started the fight
DeleteI agree I think that the high school kids didn't start the fight and he might be sensitive based on peoples actions because he was in a wheel chair in a very long time.
DeleteREBOUND
ReplyDeleteI think that the high school boys have started the fight because in page 127, David reacted tempestuously and he screamed at the 2 boys viciously. This tells me that he was noticing them imitating the way David is in a wheelchair.
When David was explaining nerve regeneration to Sean, he sounded distracted; he wouldn’t be distracted for no reason. David might’ve known the high schoolers or he might’ve seen them mocking him. But, the first option wouldn’t work because if David knew the 2 boys then he would’ve reacted differently, so, this states that the 2 boys have been spotted while insulting him.
Many people argue that it was David’s fault since he started the fight by calling the guys and fighting. But, I want to tell them that they are wrong because David has the rights to stand up for himself from people who are being disrespectful to him due to his disability.
I believe David is innocent is because in page 128 it mentions that the two guys were looking uneasy. They would only feel uneasy if they knew that David has observed what they have done but they do not want to disclose it since they are perturbed if David might do something.
But you know that since David loses his temper very quickly and the way he gets into many fights that he cant even keep a track of how many, also the 2 high school kids were confused for why David is yelling at them
DeleteBut Sean never saw. Also on page 128 it says they stopped in their tracks and turned around. they look as confused as i was said Sean. then David said I'm in a chair that doesn't mean am blind. the teens said after what do you mean. they didn't even know what David was talking about. So David might of reacted tempestuously. but that doesn't mean the teens stared it.
DeleteDavis started yelling at the high school kids for no reason and the high school kids were just as confused as David and Sean were so it doesn't really make sense
Deletehe high schoolers could have been uneasy for another reason, such as David accusing the boys and yelling at them while people look at them and infer that they HAVE been mocking or bullying David. So, how would you know for sure that the high schoolers started the fight? David could've just taken some actions among teenagers as a thought of reading him. Besides, Sean didn't see any visible mocking or teasing either
Deleteyour right tanvir David does lose his temper very quickly
DeleteWhat David sees isn't what everyone sees. David might've seen the 2 high school kids mocking him. But, Sean couldn't see what he kids did since his back was faced towards them.
DeleteTest
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DeleteI don't think the high school school kids started the fight because David is the only one who saw them but Sean didn't also Sean was positive that he didn't see anything, because nothing had happened. David doesn't know if the high school kids were talking about him, who knows they could have been talking about someone else that isn't David, although the high school kids were walking towards David and Sean but maybe they weren't going to do anything to them or they just wanted to go somewhere in that direction but they would had walked past them but David had to stop them because he thought they were talking about him, David is the one who started the fight cause high school kids didn't point at David, maybe they weren't talking about David, and when David stopped the high school kids they were as confused as Sean was, Then David started smart talking and the high school kids got mad, and they did called David an cripple and Sean an coward, but Sean was the one who landed the first hit (punch) on the high school kid who said that, also Sean is a good kid so far and i don't think he would lie to David about the high school kids. So if at least David asked them if they were talking about him none of the fighting would have started!.
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DeleteI agree it was just a miss understanding and Sean didn't see what was going on or who started it so I agree that the high schoolers didn't have fault but a miss understanding
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DeleteWhat if they were confused because he thought that he wasn't more than just a disabled person in a wheelchair? What if they didn't know that he had the ability to talk and stand up for himself?
DeleteSean was busy talking to David as David was distracted watching what those high school kids were doing, So of course he couldn't saw it! His back was turned facing David but David saw what was going on behind him.
DeleteI agree Sean would have told David if there was something but really there wasn't anything also the high school kids were confused as David and Sean were .
DeleteMariam, Sean was POSITIVE that nothing had happened also i say Sean won't lie to David.
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ReplyDeleteI think that David started the fight because David just started yelling at the high school kids and bothered to start a fight , in the book on page 128 it mentioned " what are you two baboons looking at?" David yelled .
ReplyDeleteNo one said anything to those high school kids , the high school kids didn't say anything to David and Sean they just were walking like normal high school students would do.Also in the book It said mentioned "what are you staring at!? he yelled. "I was just -" I started to answer. "Not you,"David spat out." I'm to those idiots!"he said ,pointing a finger at a couple older teenagers who were walking toward us .
I think that David thought the high school kids were pointing at him and talking about his wheel chair and/or him in when they could have been talking about something totally different .David gets really mad if someone talks about him in the wheel chair so maybe he might have assumed that and started the fight